Mathew Hillier 5:00 PM welcome - we will be starting in about a minute please test your audio using: Tools > Audio > Audio setup wizard. Jill 5:01 PM Yes my sound quality is excellent Mathew Hillier 5:01 PM text chat here MatthewP (MonashU) 5:02 PM all good Mathew Hillier 5:04 PM yes Liberty 5:04 PM Yes! Yongfu He 5:04 PM Yes Linda 5:04 PM yes Sheeja Samuel 5:04 PM yes James D-P (Kingston, UK) 5:04 PM Yes :-) andrea 1 5:04 PM yes Kat 5:04 PM yes Jill 5:04 PM Yes very clear Sue Bloxham 5:06 PM OK Mathew Hillier 5:12 PM central T&L support centre andrea 1 5:12 PM educational designer Vikki R 5:12 PM educational designer Tim Hunt 5:12 PM Educational software developer Joy Robbins 5:12 PM educational developer / TEL person Sally Drummond 5:12 PM educational designer Liberty 5:12 PM I'm a Learning Technologist working on the implementation of our new assessment and feedback policy Joy Reid 5:12 PM educational designer Jill 5:12 PM subject coordinator/lecturer Liz Davis 5:12 PM lecturer Deb Green 1 5:12 PM lecturer in education in Australia Linda 5:12 PM learning designer James D-P (Kingston, UK) 5:12 PM Maths & Computing lecturer; school L&T director bhavani 5:12 PM lecturer Phil Langton 1 5:12 PM director of units in year 2 and 3 that focus on skill development beverleybmiles 5:12 PM Ed Designer, Academic, Students as Partners advocate sally 2 5:12 PM Lecturer course leader Hilary Thomas 5:12 PM digital teaching and learning Simon Musgrave 5:12 PM Lecturer, co-ordinator of units at UG and PG level Siobhan Lenihan 5:12 PM TL admin Lincoln Then James 5:12 PM assoc lecture in career ed Kat 5:12 PM lecturer and HDR Director in a business school in Australia Yongfu He 5:12 PM Senior lecturer in the Marketing Department, teaching international marketing and international retailing, third year and second year subjects. Melanie Brown 5:12 PM academic developer Cordelia 5:13 PM Lecturer - chemical engineering. Sue Bloxham 5:15 PM Matt, can't see anything in chat under any of the tabs Tim Hunt 5:16 PM On the previous point about power imbalance: I always find it really surprising when students express that sentiment. Particualarly at the Open University, where the system is supposed to be that the Lecturer is on the student's side. So, that perception is a real problem. Mathew Hillier 5:18 PM @ sue b - check your mail :-) Mathew Hillier 5:19 PM @ tim - maybe leftovers from other education experiences where the teacher is the 'boss' that hands out marks. Tim Hunt 5:20 PM Probably. Tim Hunt 5:20 PM So, important to be clear about the kind of relationship you do want with the student. Which I guess is what this talk is about. Simon Musgrave 5:22 PM @Matthew - as this project was with 1st year students, it would be astonishing if they didn't have those hangover ideas! Mathew Hillier 5:23 PM as rebecca is pointing out - having a structure around feedback is important. esp regarding peer feedback etc. they need to be taught how to assess and how to provide feedback. Frederique Bouilheres 1 5:23 PM coming from a different uni background, I don't know what a 2:1 is Kat 5:23 PM ok :) Frederique Bouilheres 1 5:24 PM Thanks Becca Deb Green 1 5:29 PM is this scale used across all course? Sue Bloxham 5:30 PM I think it is as Senate is across the whole University Deb Green 1 5:30 PM thanks Emma 5:31 PM The University I used ot work at had a similar set, so students knew how to improve year on year (well, that was the point!); where I am now, they've nothing, which surprised me, as I was so used to it. Which is more common? (In the UK??) Sue Bloxham 5:32 PM We have a variety in the UK, differs by University. All have limitations until students learn to interpret them in the same ways as their tutors. Deb Green 1 5:32 PM Thanks everyone. We do thinks a little different in Australia Emma 5:34 PM @Sue; very true; I used to do a work shop with final year students, and it surprised me every year how they didn't really understand what the generic criteria meant. (These students were meant to have looked at them in year 1 with their personal tutors, but clearly, I don't know what went on in those meetings) Mathew Hillier 5:34 PM in Australia is is common to have grade descriptors. e.g D = Distinction, 70-79% then a broad qualitative description. however this is not universal in Australia. i worked at a university recently that did not have a standard grading scale across the uni. 5:34 PM Sue Bloxham 5:34 PM I think the Senate Scale - ie a uni wide rubric - is more like grade descriptors Deb Green 1 5:34 PM Yes and each course has a different set of standards etc Emma 5:35 PM I'm still getting my head round the way it works in Scotland, as compared to England, which is probably also compounding the difference between individual universities Mathew Hillier 5:35 PM @ Emma - yes a lot of inconsistencies even within countries! Emma 5:36 PM [Presumably this is being recorded, late trains and super slow computer booting delayed me] Mathew Hillier 5:36 PM @ emma - yes. i will send around an email with details when it is available. Emma 5:36 PM Thanks. Linh Le 5:37 PM thanks Mathew Hillier 5:37 PM in both! Emma 5:37 PM I certainly learn best when I'm uncomfortable, esp. if I get it wrong first time. Liberty 5:37 PM I think perhaps more so in the reflection on the uncomfortable experience? Joy Robbins 5:37 PM it certainly can happen in stressful situations but not only there Rachel Forsyth 5:37 PM yes, both - as long as the uncomfortable ones aren't too unpleasant Emma 5:37 PM @Joy, true! Sally Drummond 5:37 PM Learning should challenge but support should also be available. Phil Langton 1 5:38 PM They are NEW students and they can't feel anything but out of their depth. Anxiety would be entirely normal! Cordelia 5:38 PM I think it will depend on how engaged the students are. Sorry - I can't see any of the other texts as well Emma 5:38 PM [Also, uncomfortable, as in a busy office, so easier to type!] Simon Musgrave 5:38 PM I don't think we have to engineer this - the students do it to themselves all too often Tim Hunt 5:38 PM I am not sure 'uncomfortable' is the key thing. You need to be pushed, which can be scary. However, it is the pushing, not the scariness that is key. beverleybmiles 5:38 PM Cf. Zone of Optimal Confusion Jill 5:38 PM I don't know how we can completely reduce anxiety in assessment activities. Students talk about needing the adrenalin rush to complete an assignment Joy Robbins 5:38 PM agree with Tim - need to be supported to get into that liminal space Deb Green 1 5:39 PM I think that once you develop a climate that is cohesive then feeling uncomfortable can help to learn. I agree it should happen at the beginning. We need to work in the ZPD?? Rachel Forsyth 5:39 PM If it's too unpleasant, people may not come back for more! Cordelia 5:39 PM it will be ok for some students, but others will resist this exercise. Deb Green 1 5:39 PM shouldnt I mean James D-P (Kingston, UK) 5:39 PM Developing students' resilience needs some discomfort ... balancing act? andrea 1 5:39 PM surface/deep learning may play a role and be up to the independent student Mathew Hillier 5:40 PM zone of proximal development? Marilyn Johnson 1 5:40 PM especially international students, often too shy/intimidated as new students, this might be a push too far for some Phil Langton 1 5:40 PM In science, their experience is that there are right answers. Now we are telling them that this is not true and that they need to make judgements for themselves. What more stressful can you imagine? Deb Green 1 5:40 PM very true Phil Frederique Bouilheres 1 5:41 PM depends on the culture. Here in Vietnam, if students are too uncomfortable they just shut down which defeats the purpose Sue Bloxham 5:42 PM That's very interesting and relevant for diverse classrooms Cordelia 5:43 PM Are the mentors the same as the tutors? Frederique Bouilheres 1 5:43 PM mentors are peers Sue Bloxham 5:44 PM Mentors are more senior students Joy Robbins 5:44 PM could we get some examples of what questions students wrote on their ICS? andrea 1 5:44 PM good idea Sue Bloxham 5:45 PM We'll ask at the end Phil Langton 1 5:45 PM much of what we're all talking about boils down to TRUST. Dialogue is the best way that students can learn to trust staff. Remember that the are used to talking often and easily with the SE teachers. Emma 5:45 PM Can I check the sort of things they were asked in the ICS? I missed that bit; someone I was speaking to here said that students were much better at answering a "What have you done in this assessment as a result of the feedback in previous assessments" - than they were at answering "IS there anything in particular you'd like feedback on" - though looking at the answers here, it looks as if UEA's had a more detailed set of questions for the students. Liberty 5:46 PM I'm sorry if I missed this earlier, what kind of class sizes were used with Dialogue+? Emma 5:46 PM - or, related to Liberty's question, how many students/marker - if you've a larger class & more than 1 marker. MatthewP (MonashU) 5:49 PM excellent point imo Liberty 5:51 PM Great! And were the students mentored one on one? Or was the mentoring in groups? 5:51 PM Jill 5:51 PM Class sizes are a challenge. I have 200 students and one tutor plus myself Cordelia 5:52 PM I'm in engineering so our assignments are mainly not essay-based especially at 1st year. However I do agree that students' feedback is important (mainly also to ensure that they are confident with the standard of marking). How do we implement this for a different type of assessment? Phil Langton 1 5:53 PM Presumably students will have assessments that are graded by different staff. Is there any way in which the marker of, say, the third assessment can see the feedback from assessments 1 and 2? Without this oversight this becomes something of the blind leading the blind. Emma 5:54 PM @Phil,that's something I'm trying to figure out, especially when students are submitting anonymously ... MatthewP (MonashU) 5:54 PM Wondering how this extra assessment requirement was 'officially" acknowledged in tutors'/lecturers' workloads? Kat 5:54 PM Thats a good question about mentoring - I was wondering how you managed to decide at what level to pay the mentoring students? Phil Langton 1 5:55 PM I think the coversheet approach could be blended with Lesley Morrell's idea of feedforward as well as seeing the work of others - see http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.11120/beej.2013.00020 5:55 PM Emma 5:57 PM @Phil; thanks. Cordelia 5:57 PM We use rubric marking mainly and yes the 1st year class is around 200-300 so maybe not practical with mentors. However we may be able to apply this at higher levels 5:58 PM Liberty 5:58 PM I need to go but thank you Rebecca and Sue for sharing your time and knowledge! Mathew Hillier 5:59 PM i am just going though the last couple of slides! Sue Bloxham 6:00 PM OK, will bring to a conclusion Deb Green 1 6:00 PM This was really engaging and useful. Thank you to Rebecca, Sue and Matthew. I look forward to hearing more about this exciting project. It would be something I think we would be interested in considering. Phil Langton 1 6:00 PM So, I'm wondering why most of this can't be done in workshops. There are ways of posing questions without exposing oneself which might help at the beginning when some students may be reluctant to ask a question they believe may be naive. Kat 6:00 PM yes thats great, thanks rebecca Mathew Hillier 6:01 PM please fill our feedback form!http://ta.vu/feedback Simon Musgrave 6:01 PM Thanks rebecca Clara 6:01 PM Thank you Rebecca! Vikki R 6:01 PM thank you James D-P (Kingston, UK) 6:01 PM Thanks all :-) Melanie Brown 6:01 PM thanks! Cordelia 6:01 PM thank you Rachel Forsyth 6:01 PM thanks! Jill 6:01 PM Thankyou sally 2 6:01 PM thank you MatthewP (MonashU) 6:01 PM thank you Sue and Rebecca Joy Robbins 6:01 PM Thank you very much! Yongfu He 6:01 PM Thank you Rebecca. Hilary Thomas 6:01 PM thanks!! Phil Langton 1 6:01 PM bye folks (phil.langton-AT-bristol.ac.uk) Yongfu He 6:01 PM Mathew and Sue thank you as well. Emma 6:02 PM Thanks everyone! Sorry I was late. Will hope for better trains next time. MatthewP (MonashU) 6:05 PM just to let you know...you are still live lol (enjoying the post-webinar chat) but pls indicate if this chat is 'private" :) Mathew Hillier 6:06 PM yes we know :-) somtimes this happens! 6:06 PM MatthewP (MonashU) 6:06 PM cool Mathew Hillier 6:06 PM after session chat Sue Bloxham 6:08 PM I've got to go now, I'm afraid. thanks to both of you. Bye.