WEBVTT

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<v casey>
Hi, from Singapore

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<v YvonneW UC>
Even faster because it is October 🙂

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<v Mathew Hillier>
opps i forgot to change the month label on the front slide!


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<v Mathew Hillier>
http://ahenetwork.org

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<v Dr Elriza Esterhuyzen>
Hello from South Africa

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<v Gareth Gorton #2>
Hi everyone, from UK

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<v annie>
I'm excited about a trip to Manchester 😉

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<v Mathew Hillier>
please do comment and ask questions here!

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<v Emma L>
yep

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<v annie>
Yes

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<v Samantha Ahern>
I've never used a red pen, always used a more neutral colour like purple

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<v Laurine Hurley>
the "worried well" are heaviest users

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<v Samantha Ahern>
yeah

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<v Mark Bassett>
aka the anxious able

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<v Laurine Hurley>
@MArk, I like that

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<v Fiona Meddings>
@Samantha Ahern Do you think the colour of pen makes a difference to how the student feels about the criticism?

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<v Carolyn>
I was a purple pen user, too, @Samantha Ahern However, I moved away from intrusion and vandalism on student artifacts. 

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<v Samantha Ahern>
@Fiona Meddings I believe so. Red is socially perceived as bad, a warning. Immediately it's a stressor. I'm hoping that by using another colour the stress response was reduced and they were more able to take in the content

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<v Simon Penn>
How could the students ask questions immediately if the video was recorded? I guess this is the same as written/text feedback where they can ask after the have received FB?

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<v Emma L>
Depends where the student is from in my experience; colours have different associations in different cultures.

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<v Fiona Meddings>
@Carolyn That is an interesting thought - intrusion and vandalism.

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<v Samantha Ahern>
@Simon Penn I was thinking that, isn't it just another way of the teacher telling? Same with audio feedback

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<v Emma L>
@Carolyn yes, food for thought 🙂

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<v Samantha Ahern>
Where is the dialogue?

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<v Fabio Aricò>
@Simon Penn @Samantha Ahern I guess this goes back to the idea of dialogic as as "actionable" feedback. We can ask Justin.

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<v Samantha Ahern>
@Fabio Aricò  I think it's more than that, it needs to be co-constructed and understanding of the feedback co-constructed

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<v Laurine Hurley>
in my Grad Cert in HE, the FB/FF was provided by highlighting some text and often quite lengthy, useful comments on the side. Highly valuable for me but very time-consuming; no way for our large groups with one hour/semester/student for ALL the assessment

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<v Bethan Gulliver>
Comment banks can help with the above when marking online.

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<v Samantha Ahern>
I just read a brilliant book - Understanding Feedback: https://www.criticalpublishing.com/understanding-feedback

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<v Laurine Hurley>
@Samantha Ahern perhaps the dialogue can begin after the student views the video?

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<v Mathew Hillier>
FYI previous TA session on "Video feedback - targeted and personal" talking about the details of creating video feedback http://transformingassessment.com/events_4_august_2016.php

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<v Juuso Nieminen>
@Samantha, this is super interesting. Might this imply that asynchronous feedback (be it text, video, audio) cannot be dialogic? Can 'dialogic feedback' only be conducted through 'synchronous' situations where people are having a discussion (in Zoom or f2f, in a chat etc)?

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<v Fabio Aricò>
I guess so, and by using videos Justin takes out negative emotions by establishing a more empathic and productive environment.

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<v Emma L>
Read article recently that talked about how written feedback is somewhat problematic: Steen-Utheim, A. and Hopfenbeck, T.N., 2019. To do or not to do with feedback. A study of undergraduate students’ engagement and use of feedback within a portfolio assessment design. <i>Assessment & Evaluation in Higher Education</i>, <i>44</i>(1), pp.80-96. 
 

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<v Laurine Hurley>
@Bethan yes, but the good thing about our FB was that it was highly personalised and directed to the actual content... suggestions tailored for each individual 

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<v annie>
agree re: physical distancing! "social" is such a misnomer

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<v Samantha Ahern>
Often there isn't any actual discussion. Audio or video feedback is given, but that's it. It's nicer but it's still fundamentally the teacher telling

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<v mike #2>
how does this scale?

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<v YvonneW UC>
👋 

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<v Peter Berg>
Was there a difference between students you knew already v those who you had little/no previous relationship?

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<v Bethan Gulliver>
I agree Laurine... it is definitely something I would like to try. But is it possible for cohorts of over two hundred marked by one or two people?

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<v Laurine Hurley>
@Samantha, might it be formalised that there is a response to/conversation about the video?

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<v Peter Berg>
Was existing trust an important factor?

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<v Susie Macfarlane (Deakin)>
Re scaling up: I conducted a project capacity building video feedback in casual academic staff teaching in large units, it was challenging.

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<v Laurine Hurley>
@Bethan Gulliver only if they have no life and work for free! I am still in awe of them.. it was a small class of PG uni staff, not my >700 first years\

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<v Fiona Meddings>
@Susie Macfarlane (Deakin) were there benefits to this approach, despite the challenges?

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<v Emma L>
Did you monitor how many views the video recordings had?

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<v Bethan Gulliver>
@Laurine Hurley that's me then ; )

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<v Laurine Hurley>
@Susie Macfarlane (Deakin) love to know more

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<v H>
@Susie Macfarlane (Deakin) - did you come up with anything that you thought worked well/was helpful re the scale issue

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<v Peter Hartley>
Some years ago (pre-Zoom) we found that a combination of audio feedback and a written grid against the criteria had significant impact and was no more time consuming than previous practice. And it encouraged dialogue (and improved relationship) with the tutor.

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<v Leena Vinod>
Is the video feedback in addition to the written feedback or does it substitutes it?

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<v Alice Shepherd (Univ of Leeds)>
Yes agree.  I did some screencast feedback pre-pandemic and the students said they could tell from my voice extra information that they wouldn't have been able to discern if it had just been typed feedback

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<v Emma L>
That's really interesting, thank you Justin.

Video is good too because you can put captions/subtitles on for those who have English as an additional language (as my Ss do).

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<v Juuso Nieminen>
I would note that any dialogue can be 'slow' and still based on social meaning-making etc. For example, traditional letters can of course be used as a form of dialogue. Sometimes 'slow' is not equal to 'avoidable' - I'm definitely a slow thinker myself and I would like my students to carefully (and sometimes slowly rather than quickly) synthesise it and make use of it 🙂 I would argue 'teacher telling' is not as much a feature of feedback information but the feedback process

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<v Stefan Schutt>
I find even using speech to text in written feedback changes the tone and makes it  little more conversational and less abrupt sounding.

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<v Julie Bradshaw>
Really enjoyed this - thank you.

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<v mike #2>
There is big difference between post graduate research students where there is not any right answer and taught students who cannot challenge the right answer

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<v Juuso Nieminen>
Brilliant presentation, than you!

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<v Laurine Hurley>
a better dialogue may result from time to read and digest the FB and then the student comments?

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<v Bethan Gulliver>
Excellent presentation, thank you 

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<v Samantha Ahern>
@mike #2  is there always a right answer?

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<v Caitríona Ní Shé (Trinity College Dublin)>
Thank you Justin

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<v Flora Smyth Zahra>
Thank you Justin this resonates with my own assessment of undergrads 

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<v Laurine Hurley>
@Juuso Nieminen agree

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<v mike #2>
according to the examination rules of undergraduate assessment the student cannot challenge their markj 

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<v Marion Palmer>
Thanks Justin

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<v Laurine Hurley>
@mike #2 really???

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<v Mathew Hillier>
yes - we ill post the slides PDF to the TA website 🙂

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<v Samantha Ahern>
What about the formative process?

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<v Laurine Hurley>
I've just spent an hour on one who did

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<v mike #2>
What the examiner says is final in undergraduate assessment

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<v Samantha Ahern>
I'm pretty sure we have an appeals process

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<v YvonneW UC>
Any chance of being able to see Elizabeth? That actually helps me hear.

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<v mike #2>
you can only appeal about process not an examiner's judgement

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<v Laurine Hurley>
@Samantha Ahern we certainly do.. some are very valid, some vexatious litigants (she says having just dealt with some of the latter)

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<v Emma L>
@Mike, that's the same for us at AUB, can appeal on extenuating circs or procedural error but not marker's judgement.

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<v Emma L>
Guess it depends on your institution's policy.

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<v Fiona Meddings>
@Peter Hartley could this approach be enhanced with the advent of video feedback where it replaced audio feedback and is this similar to the approach @Justin Rami  was suggesting?

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<v Emma L>
@Laurine Hurley Where are you Laurine?

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<v Laurine Hurley>
Melbourne... ACU

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<v mike #2>
I cannot imagine any university policy allowing a student to challenge an examiner's judgement

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<v Emma L>
@Laurine, I see...That policy create a lot of work for you!

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<v Laurine Hurley>
yep!

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<v Emma L>
@ Laurine Solidarity 🙂

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<v mike #2>
clearly you can try and argue with an examiner about their judgement but they can just ignore your argument

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<v Laurine Hurley>
sometimes it rights a wrong, so that is very satisfying when the student is validated

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<v Mathew Hillier>
At most Australian universities the student can challenge the mark of an exam (grade appeal) - but it tends to be limited to things such as admin errors in adding up marks etc rather than being able to argue against academic judgement.

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<v Laurine Hurley>
@mike #2 we have a formal process that escalates past the examiner. that removes  perception of favouritism etc

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<v Susie Macfarlane (Deakin)>
@Laurine Hurley
Re scaling up with sessional staff:
- the most important thing was to spend time capacity building good feedback practice, not detailed "editing". Then give feedback until the marker is capable.
- Also, let them know it's ok to not be fluent or have interruptions
A key challenge was that sessional staff often did not have space to give video feedback, but this may not be so since COVID with everyone working at home (Melb/Australian context)
Happy to follow up. 

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<v Laurine Hurley>
thanks, @ Susie

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<v Samantha Ahern>
A very long time ago I had some of my lessons recorded, video cam at back of room, for review, discussion and feedback afterwards. I knew something was off and wanted to work out what it was. Was in my early years as a secondary teacher. Was discussed with colleagues.

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<v mike #2>
Video can provide a biased selective view as for example something critical might be happening outside of the view of the camera?

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<v Alice Shepherd (Univ of Leeds)>
Does anyone have a video observation scheme within their university/PG Cert HE programme? 

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<v Fiona Meddings>
@mike #2 That is an interesting point,, I was assuming that the video would take a view of the whole classroom?

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<v annie>
Hi @Alice we have been doing observations of teaching delivered via video platforms..! Not sure if that's of interest? 

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<v Alexandra>
@annie very interested, where are you based?

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<v Alice Shepherd (Univ of Leeds)>
Yes @annie sounds interesting! 

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<v Mathew Hillier>
We started an open classroom scheme that includes both physical class and zoom lessons. the latter can be recorded (if the teacher so chooses) and while it is not quite the same as recording classroom teaching, but a legitimate format of teaching just the same.

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<v annie>
Coventry, feel free to email me: annie.bryan[at]coventry.ac.uk @Alice Shepherd (Univ of Leeds) 

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<v Alice Shepherd (Univ of Leeds)>
Thanks @annie 

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<v annie>
(and @Alexandra /anyone else who would like to know more)

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<v Alexandra>
thanks, maybe the 3 of us can have a chat? (I'm at Reading)

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<v annie>
Great idea!

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<v Alexandra>
a.j.savage[at]reading.ac.uk 

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<v Alice Shepherd (Univ of Leeds)>
yes, a chat would be good!

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<v Anne Stazicker>
Could you say a little bit more about what goes into the summative portfolios, please?

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<v Laurine Hurley>
scalability is so often the stumbling block...

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<v Fiona Meddings>
@Anne Stazicker will ask that question

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<v YvonneW UC>
👋 

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<v annie>
Thank you Liz and colleagues!

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<v Melissa Schuessler>
I really enjoyed that, thank you

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<v Laurine Hurley>
👏 

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<v Justin Rami>
thank you Elizabeth, very interesting

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<v Zaneta #2>
Thank you 🙂 

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<v Alice Shepherd (Univ of Leeds)>
thank you, both presentations intriguing

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<v Alexandra>
Thank you, that was so interesting

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<v Svetlana L.>
Thank you. It was really interesting 

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<v Mathew Hillier>
before you go if you can fill our feedback 
(but we will keep going for another 10 mins at least)

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<v Caitríona Ní Shé (Trinity College Dublin)>
Thank you very much Elizabeth

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<v Anne Stazicker>
Thank you!

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<v Susie Macfarlane (Deakin)>
@Leena Vinod  we found marked up written feedback was also helpful but it was much briefer with video feedback 

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<v Sue>
Thank you - very thoughtful presentations to consider for future practice

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<v Emma L>
Got to head off but thank you to the speakers for their time in giving these presentations. Food for thought! Take care folks!

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<v Joy>
Many thanks to all involved for these two great sessions! Very useful

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<v Harvey Woolf>
Thank you for a thought provoking session.

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<v mike #2>
Do you need parental consent?

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<v Justin Rami>
thanks. if anyone wishes to get in touch to discuss further please feel free justin.rami[at]dcu.ie

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<v Laurine Hurley>
FB as a teaching moment is a win-win, I'd say

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<v Carolyn>
Video framing and selectivity are a fact. However, even doing in-person observation, you cannot watch everything going on in the room all the time. 

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<v Samantha Ahern>
@Laurine Hurley  i fully agree. What's the point of it, if it isn't?

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<v Laurine Hurley>
👍 

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<v Simon Sheard>
@mike #2 This varies depending on the school. Some schools will gain specific consent, some will have 'general consent' and some will insist on a camera view of just the teacher & board. The latter is still workable but obviously not as rich.

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<v mike #2>
video analysis has always been used in sport

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<v mike #2>
video analysis has been used for nurse training with a simulated AI/electronic patient

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<v Phil Collins>
Thanks to the speakers - nice to hear how things  have been done and some things to think about.  Need to go now.

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<v mike #2>
transcribing video is much harder than audio

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<v Mathew Hillier>
before you go if you can fill our feedback 

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<v Kieran>
Thanks to the speakers!

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<v Marion Palmer>
Thanks Elizabeth and Simon, great to hear about such interesting work. 

00:55:46.000 --> 00:55:46.900
<v Elizabeth Hidson>
Thank you all for your time!

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<v H>
thank you very much, lots of food for thought

00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:53.900
<v Alice Shepherd (Univ of Leeds)>
thanks everyone, it's been really interesting...

00:55:54.000 --> 00:55:54.900
<v Melissa Schuessler>
Many thanks for these sessions!

00:55:57.000 --> 00:55:57.900
<v Simon Sheard>
Many thanks everyone

00:56:08.000 --> 00:56:08.900
<v Rosario Hernandez>
Thanks for the interesting talks and follow up questions

00:56:09.000 --> 00:56:09.900
<v Claudia>
Thank you all 🙂

00:56:09.000 --> 00:56:09.900
<v YvonneW UC>
Thanks again for all - as always really interesting and useful.

00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:10.900
<v Michael Sankey>
thankyou

00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:10.900
<v Chris Nelson>
Many thanks all

00:56:16.000 --> 00:56:16.900
<v Claire Ketnor>
Thank you

00:56:22.000 --> 00:56:22.900
<v Lisa Coulson #4>
Thank you

00:56:22.000 --> 00:56:22.900
<v Gillie Bonner>
Thank you

00:56:23.000 --> 00:56:23.900
<v Lyn Marks>
thanks everyone - always helpful and interesting

00:56:25.000 --> 00:56:25.900
<v Ala>
Thank you so much 

00:56:26.000 --> 00:56:26.900
<v Bethan Gulliver>
Thank you 

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<v Anastasiya>
Thanks very much! Very informative! 

00:56:33.000 --> 00:56:33.900
<v Michael Sankey>
muted matthew

00:56:35.000 --> 00:56:35.900
<v Mark Bassett>
thank you to all who presented - very interesting

00:56:39.000 --> 00:56:39.900
<v Jess Power>
super thans.

00:56:44.000 --> 00:56:44.900
<v Friederika Kaider>
Thank yiou, informative and interesting

00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:50.900
<v Samantha Ahern>
It's been interesting, thanks

00:57:59.000 --> 00:57:59.900
<v Trevor Bullman #3>
Thanks everyone