Connie Price - Curtin University 3:41 PM Hi Mat, I'm here Connie Price - Curtin University 3:43 PM Hang on a tick, just got to check my audio setup OK, try again Mat 3:44 PM Helen/Courtenay 3:47 PM Hello Mathew Hillier 4:27 PM hi phil Mireilla Bikanga Ada 4:45 PM hi everyone Inger C Grøndal 4:46 PM Good morning! Geoff Crisp 4:51 PM Hello everyone YvonneW.au 4:51 PM Hi Geoff - everyone Mathew Hillier 4:57 PM Greetings all - if you have yet to run the audio set up wizard please do so :-) Tools -> Audio -> Audio setup wizard... 4:57 PM Inger C Grøndal 4:57 PM Do we need microphone, or is it ok just to listen in and use the chat? Mathew Hillier 4:58 PM no mic needed you can text chat if you want to ask questions/comments 4:58 PM Rich Goodman 5:03 PM Morning everyone! Jim Callan 5:03 PM evening! Mireilla Bikanga Ada 5:03 PM Morning Mathew Hillier 5:04 PM talkie here Connie Price - Curtin University 5:05 PM Hi everyone Jim Callan 5:05 PM thanks Matthew Mathew Hillier 5:05 PM brisbane, australia Jim Callan 5:05 PM Yeppoon QLD Paul McLaughlin 5:05 PM Edinburgh, Scotland Inger C Grøndal 5:05 PM Hi, we are 5 people listening in from Oslo, Norway Helen 5:05 PM Hi everyone, Liverpool, UK Ricky Vuckovic 5:05 PM Hello from Canberra, Australia :) Rich Goodman 5:05 PM Loughborough, England Jag Wadhwa 5:05 PM Hi everyone, From London, UK Mireilla Bikanga Ada 5:05 PM Mireilla from Glasgow (UWS Paisley) Connie Price - Curtin University 5:06 PM ;) Jim Callan 5:06 PM B) Kate Outhwaite 5:06 PM Hi everyone, Kate rom Anglia Ruskin University, Cambridge, UK YvonneW.au 5:09 PM fantastic views - very jealous Geoff Crisp 5:11 PM I think the cost of poor assessment might be something we need to address too Jim Callan 5:16 PM The transaction costs are considerable ... too much inertia in the system triggers accountability dilemmas Geoff Crisp 5:18 PM Need to change the dynamics of time allocation for assessment - especially if we move to assessment as/for learning in addition to assessment of learning Jim Callan 5:22 PM Assessment outcomes are key to the calibre of collegial working relations between scholars Geoff Crisp 5:24 PM Agree Jim - assessment is everyone's responsibility and something that goes to heart of quality in currciulum design and delivery Mathew Hillier 5:24 PM can back up the 'two screens' idea fro making marking easier! Mathew Hillier 5:26 PM yep.. been there!!! Mireilla Bikanga Ada 5:27 PM lol Jim Callan 5:27 PM Howls of derisive laughter YvonneW.au 5:27 PM :p Jim Callan 5:27 PM major diconnects Jag Wadhwa 5:27 PM It doesn't help that a number of staff enter the experience with this frame of mind Courtenay / Helen 5:28 PM YEs - we agree and hence why we have undertaken the research project that we will talk about soon Jim Callan 5:28 PM As few steps as possible ...yes? Mathew Hillier 5:28 PM or minimise the 'double' handeling. e.g manualy uploading feedback to blackboard one-by-one is nuts. 5:29 PM Jim Callan 5:29 PM bulk upload is the way to go! Mathew Hillier 5:29 PM yes indeed!!! Wilma (Edinburgh) 5:29 PM SOmething there about the software services not modelling our needs well Courtenay / Helen 5:29 PM YEs -but you need a system to handle smart views or some system to handle bulk uploads of groups of students Mathew Hillier 5:31 PM blackboard allows you to download student files in bulk giving each file structured names. it *should* be possible to have blackboard suck them back up again. a script could be made to do that. it boggles my mind why blackboard have not done it years ago. Wilma (Edinburgh) 5:31 PM There's a buildingblock for Bb which allows you to bulk upload Feedback - from another university - we have found it useful in a limited way Mathew Hillier 5:32 PM would like to know the details ?! Wilma (Edinburgh) 5:32 PM Will try to find them and send them on later Mathew Hillier 5:32 PM i would imagine the academic needs to be careful not to mess up the files names too... Jim Callan 5:32 PM Grademark does not enable effective eAssessment....ReMarksPDF is far more elegant Jag Wadhwa 5:33 PM Your learning technologist should be able to provide you with an excel spreadsheet format to complete that they will be able to upload to the VLE Geoff Crisp 5:34 PM http://www.remarkspdf.com/ Jim Callan 5:34 PM The issue of adoption is much deeper than training ... there are acute issues to do with the way individuals embody technologies Mathew Hillier 5:34 PM Jag - numeric upload i not such a probelm. yes they can grab the gradebook spreadsheet. what i eman is bulk return of annotated student files. Wilma (Edinburgh) 5:35 PM Bulk upload of Feedback for Learn 9.1 - Middlesbrough College UK (sorry don't have a name) our instructions at http://edin.ac/190IQXt Mathew Hillier 5:35 PM thanks wilma :-) Trish 3 5:37 PM Wilma, looks interesting .. but you seemed restrained in your recommendation .. what are the issues about it? Wilma (Edinburgh) 5:37 PM It still involves download / upload steps which take up time and are "admin" sort of activity. Mathew Hillier 5:38 PM as long as it is a single short operation that does all student's files. Jim Callan 5:39 PM The dilemma is double edged - proffer a duality - human + technics and the resultant praxis (mindfulness aka openness) Wilma (Edinburgh) 5:39 PM We have issues with "division of labour" between time-poor academics and equally time-poor admin staff who often have inadequate support for making their mart of the workflow work - managing grades between VLE systems and registry, being a point of contact for students... Mathew Hillier 5:39 PM this apprach also allows academcis to mark using whatever annotation tools that suit theur need Connie Price - Curtin University 5:40 PM Just responding to the comments on bulk download/upload. Yes this is useful but a workflow that handles this automatically while keeping the user within the workflow of marking individual student work is more optimal. Jim Callan 5:40 PM ICT is a vehicle - the system is really entitled "eAssessment" Wilma (Edinburgh) 5:40 PM CAn I ask about the role of admin staff in this? At what point do they help with papers Connie Price - Curtin University 5:40 PM I think there will be diminishing return Mathew in terms of allowing people to use the tool their are most familiar with whil keeping a handle on the workflow Jim Callan 5:40 PM not yet :) Mathew Hillier 5:41 PM agree- there is a balance. but we probably dont want a 'one-size-fits-all' becasue it never does. 5:41 PM Connie Price - Curtin University 5:41 PM Our current process does not require input from admin staff as tutors 'pick up' the submissions directly from the lms and similarly 'return' it to allow students to 'collect it all within the lms environment Mathew Hillier 5:41 PM closed systems normaly dont suit the great variety in the typical university. Rachel Temple 5:42 PM @Wilma agree: what is role of Admin staff and their training needs in this? Wilma (Edinburgh) 5:42 PM @Connie - so what is the interaction between formative activity and summative - grades etc? Jim Callan 5:43 PM Admin? do you mean supervisors like HOPs? Connie Price - Curtin University 5:43 PM I think it is a mix of the technology/software and the tools that are beginning to return us to a more natural and flexible workflow in marking. I'm thinking about the new iPad app Turnitin has just released which allows off line marking with automatic syncing of marks when you re-connect to the internet Wilma (Edinburgh) 5:44 PM With is, typically admin staff may set up the assignments in the LMS, manage any movement of grades between LMS and Registry, may release marks , feedback etc to students... Helen 5:44 PM @Connie, I am interested in how you manage the process of double marking and/or moderating assessments when using on line submission, marking and feedback. Connie Price - Curtin University 5:45 PM @ Wilma - Interestingly in our GradeMark pilot project we tried to distinguish between parts of the workflow that required academic judgement and those that could be completed by admin staff. Wilma (Edinburgh) 5:46 PM @ Connie - and was that difficult? Ours varies by school / subject area too. Jim Callan 5:46 PM Curious Wilma... admin are being eased out of the process ... escalating costs - being the culprit! Connie Price - Curtin University 5:46 PM @Helen - Yes this is still a challenge. While the tool allows the Unit Coordinator to access all student submission and to request a different tutor to second mark work as part of a moderation strategy the one limitation is that Turnitin currently does not allow blind second marking using a fresh copy (not annotated) of the student work nor a clean version of the rubric. Wilma (Edinburgh) 5:47 PM Interesting Jim - wonder if it will go that way here if we can get the workflow / staff support right. Helen 5:47 PM @Connie - thanks, that is pretty much what we have found! Jim Callan 5:48 PM I'd imgaine so - costs are a driving force for change in universities nowadays Wilma (Edinburgh) 5:48 PM Re second marking, moderating etc - that's more of a block in some subject areas than in others, so it has hindered adoption courtenay/helen 5:48 PM @wilma link between formative tasks and summative grades - we have formative activities that are draft essays which are submitted online and we use emarking strategies with no marks attached - that then get further developed for the summative assessment that then gets uploaded online and emarking processes applied. Does this answer your questions Wilma? Jim Callan 5:48 PM Time on task ...funny we all have 168 hours/week (no more no less) Connie Price - Curtin University 5:49 PM @ Wilma, suprisingly one of the unexpected barriers to evaluating this approach was that despite screening people via a self report that their assessment used a rubric when we got to the step of creating the assignment for use in Turnitin we discovered that their interpretation of what was a rubric was different to ours and this created a bottleneck since the admin staff were not in a position to identify this nor address it Wilma (Edinburgh) 5:50 PM Thanks Connie - answers some of it - no real surprises. Difficulty of "one size fits all" again! What Helen is saying about frustrations and feelings of imposition strikes chords 5:50 PM Jim Callan 5:50 PM The "elephant in the room" with Assessment is the problematic issue of "applying one's professional judgement!" when assessing work! One size fitted all in the past - pencil and paper! 5:51 PM Wilma (Edinburgh) 5:51 PM Is it partly a Trojan Horse for getting people to seriously rethink their assessments? Indeed - we have a transforming assessment project at present too. Slow! 5:52 PM Mathew Hillier 5:52 PM showing sources screen then i will put up the feedback survey shortly. 5:52 PM Wilma (Edinburgh) 5:53 PM CAn I ask more about organising the workshops - time and effort and how many peoplem to create and run it? Mathew Hillier 5:53 PM the link will open a browser tab. Connie Price - Curtin University 5:53 PM Definately Wilma, when Geoff finsihes take the mike Jim Callan 5:54 PM Was there any moderation involved during the project? Wilma (Edinburgh) 5:54 PM Sorry mike not working :'( Mireilla Bikanga Ada 5:54 PM It was quite informative. Iam a PhD student a UWS Paisley Campus. I have noticed that some tutors are quite resisting the changes do you think will ever chnage? YvonneW.au 5:54 PM do you have ideas about - non written assessment items - and how thatwould impact on work flow? also moves to peer marking posibilities? 5:55 PM thx 5:55 PM Mireilla Bikanga Ada 5:55 PM can you use group feedback? Courtenay / Helen 5:56 PM The workshop we developed ran over two days and the three of us presented on areas we had expertise on. I think change is possible but universities need to put resources into supporting academics to change. Ricky Vuckovic 5:56 PM A question - were OH&S issues raised at all by people worried about eye/hand strain on moving from paper-based and onto a desktop or maybe an iPad (smaller screen.. can have bad posture if it's just in your hands)? Was it much of a concern by your staff? Wilma (Edinburgh) 5:56 PM Thanks Helen - I take it that the research you put into this beforehand also counts as ws prep! Ricky Vuckovic 5:57 PM Cool, thanks :) Mireilla Bikanga Ada 5:58 PM good presentation. thanks Connie Price - Curtin University 5:58 PM Fantastic everyone, we had fun:) Mathew Hillier 5:58 PM all these comments are captured into the recording too :-) Wilma (Edinburgh) 5:58 PM Many thanks, very interesting and helpful. YvonneW.au 5:58 PM Thanks for the session - we are following in your footsteps - it was good confirmation - to see the similarities - and hear about your experiences. Jim Callan 5:58 PM :)Thanks team...good to see (y) Mathew Hillier 5:58 PM remeber more upcoming sessions at eassessment scotland! Connie Price - Curtin University 5:59 PM Agree Geoff, doing it at scale is a real challenge and we got all excited about the Turnitin iPad app but when I looked at it closer it is probably not going to work with the class size in this unit. Graeme Ferris 5:59 PM Thanks all! Anne-Marie Scott 5:59 PM Thanks all! James D-P 5:59 PM Thanks :-) courtenay/helen 5:59 PM THANK YOU! Russell 5:59 PM Thanks Tracey Madden (Bath) 5:59 PM Thank you courtenay/helen 6:00 PM we are still here if you have any other questions Jim Callan 6:00 PM Thanks Matt & Geoff...see you at another session! YvonneW.au 6:01 PM me too - on the multi speakers Jim Callan 6:01 PM Multiple speakers was great guys! Need other feedback loops ...maybe! 6:01 PM Mathew Hillier 6:03 PM webcams can be used but rapidly use up bandwidth Kate Outhwaite 6:03 PM thank you all. very useful and informative. Ricky Vuckovic 6:06 PM I'm off. Thanks again for the great presentation, as well as generally for hosting these online sessions that anybody can join. Catch you later on other sessions throughout the week and a bit :) Geoff Crisp 6:06 PM Bye Ricky, see you next time Mathew Hillier 6:08 PM thanks :-D welcome~ 6:08 PM Jim Callan 6:08 PM Once again thanks team! bye 6:08 PM Mathew Hillier 6:08 PM nite/morning all~