WEBVTT 00:00:11.000 --> 00:00:11.900 Hello from Sydney City 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:18.900 great we have 132 people in the room πŸ™‚ 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:30.900 Morning everyone! 00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:20.900 Good morning from the Netherlands! 00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:19.900 Hello everyone from Sydney Australia 00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:31.900 Good morning from Sligo, Ireland 00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:53.900 Good morning everyone from Palestine. 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:08.900 Greetings from London. Great topic for discussion. 00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:17.900 Hi Everyone! 00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:37.900 Pity - it is nice for us to see you πŸ™‚ 00:05:31.000 --> 00:05:31.900 Hello from Cairns in the wet tropics 00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:40.900 I like that second point... it seems lost in some political spheres.. 00:06:55.000 --> 00:06:55.900 hi, maybe we also tweet at #transformingassessment 00:06:58.000 --> 00:06:58.900 Is it just me or is there no sound? 00:06:59.000 --> 00:06:59.900 the higher purpose, I mean 00:07:17.000 --> 00:07:17.900 Anja, I can hear Juuso 00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:23.900 Please add the article info in the chat. 00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:27.900 @Anja there is sound for me - check settings ? click on your icon at the bottom of the screen 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:30.900 I agree Laurine 00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:31.900 @Anja try settings and sound check. (it is working). 00:07:55.000 --> 00:07:55.900 I can't hear anything either 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:09.900 @Hannelie du Plessis-Walker yes I second that 00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:44.900 Nieminen, J. H., & Tuohilampi, L. (2020). β€˜Finally studying for myself’ – examining student agency in summative and formative self-assessment models. Assessment & Evaluation in Higher Education, 45(7), 1031-1045. doi:10.1080/02602938.2020.1720595 00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:52.900 thanks! 00:08:58.000 --> 00:08:58.900 Thanks, Rachel 00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:00.900 Thank you Rachel 00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:05.900 (sorry link isn't quite right there - https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02602938.2020.1720595 00:09:17.000 --> 00:09:17.900 Works for me now, had to change to headset -settings 00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:24.900 thanks 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:38.900 Brilliant, thank you 00:12:59.000 --> 00:12:59.900 Thank you @Rachel Forsyth 00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:25.900 Thanks @Rachel Forsyth 00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:16.900 Sad that current teaching culture makes students feel uneasy about self-assessment. 00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:16.900 Thank you Rachel 00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:36.900 @Carolin yes 00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:43.900 Yes @Carolin R. it feels like the opposite of education! 00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:40.900 Support and scaffold comment especially true with mixed international cohorts where cultural differences have an impact 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:48.900 It does Carolin, but we do not often overtly teach students how to self evaluate their own work. 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:28.900 Yan Zi is strong on self-assessment eg https://srhe.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02602938.2016.1260091#.YBpOq-gzbnY 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:30.900 Absolutely, @Hazel Lobo 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:33.900 @Hazel Lobo can you explain a little more? 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:33.900 Shameless self promotion here- I talk about disrupting assessment practices in this article https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09650792.2020.1829496 00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:38.900 @Fiona Meddings Agreed Fiona - it ought to become integral to education and training. 00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:43.900 Thank you Juuso 00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:43.900 Absolutely, @Rachel Forsyth . Same with inductive language teaching. Students always feel really uneasy about it initially because they are so used to be told the rules. Same with self-assessment. Students are unfortunately so used to be evaluated rather than self-assessing themselves. 00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:54.900 Juuso, could you please elaborate on the assessment and students' performance? 00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:06.900 I agree with U Caroline 00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:09.900 @Fiona Meddings that is true - we expect students to arrive knowing things that WE had to learn! 00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:17.900 Very interesting Juuso. Thanks for sharing! How did you obtain permission to change the exam in the math course so drastically for half of the students? 00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:21.900 Does this point us towards having to take a programme focused approach? Most innovations tend to focus on the modular level. 00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:40.900 @Fiona Meddings absolutely agree. Further hampered by assessing bodies and regulations that dictate what assessments should look like 00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:56.900 @Zhen, would be great to have your question answered by @Juuso 00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:56.900 Is baseline self-efficacy a predictor of the student performance? 00:19:58.000 --> 00:19:58.900 Do you think that kind of outcome wold be similar in a high stakes course, such as nursing or medicine? 00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:05.900 @Laurine Hurley that is totally true! 00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:08.900 What feedback did you give the formative self assessment? 00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:18.900 @Carolin R. True - certainly in South Africa. 00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:20.900 @Fiona Meddings Some international students come from cultures where they expect the teacher to teach and the student to learn. There is a deeper resistance to self-assessment and to peer assessment, because the students feel they are 'paying for the service'... 00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:31.900 Did you implement self-assessment after this experiment? Any interesting results? 00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:05.900 @Hazel Lobo that is too common 00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:07.900 were students assigned randomly to the groups? 00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:10.900 I think there is a whole of life view to take here - self assessment of learning is something we learn not to do via parenting practices and formal education? 00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:17.900 Accordingly, the support and scaffolding needs to reflect those concerns and ensure that students understand the wider impact (and benefits) of self-evaluation. 00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:10.900 @Hazel Lobo I think student expectation to be taught and for the role of assessment to belong to the teacher is not culture-specific there are students at my own institution in the UK who think exactly the same. 00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:35.900 Thank you @Jayne Pearson - I'm quite familiar with this article and really like it! πŸ™‚ 00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:01.900 I wonder if there is also an unpacking issue here, as there must be some self-assessment going on for some students in determining when they feel a piece of coursework is 'ready' to submit. Not all students submit right on the deadline, some submit early. 00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:03.900 @Fiona Meddings I agree, but it seems to be more deeply rooted in our international students - the resistance is deeper... 00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:31.900 @Alice Shepherd (Univ of Leeds) Yes, and others never feel ready to submit... 00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:48.900 @Fiona Meddings yes indeed. I wonder if it is fear of having to face that what they do/achieve is due to them. When we do it, it's easier to 'pass the blame' 00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:04.900 The NSS subject data is also available 00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:05.900 @Alice Shepherd (Univ of Leeds) very good point 00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:08.900 yes @Hazel Lobo so that could be related to how finely attuned they are to self-assessing their work 00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:15.900 local students I was meaning 00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:46.900 @Zhen, do you mean how students performed on the course? A simple answer: Very highly! The course was conducted in a very student-centred way, not only in terms of assessment: There was a lot of support and scaffolding, a 24/7 learning centre not only for learning but for social interaction... So both groups performed very highly, and a statistical measurement of the course task points showed very minor differences between the two groups (in favour to the summative group). Did I answer your question? πŸ™‚ 00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:01.900 @Hazel Lobo, there is definitely 'groundwork' that needs to be done when working with diverse students. Price et al. (2011) and Evans (2013) talk about the impact of previous experiences and culture when it comes to engaging with feedback (and feedback interventions). In my work, I try to prepare the ground by 'priming' for feedback receptivity: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02602938.2020.1852174 students tell me this makes quite a big difference as it provides a theoretical rationale for why they should engage. Low stakes experiences prove the value empirically. 00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:47.900 @James Wood Thank you for the link, James. Adding to the reading list πŸ™‚ 00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:48.900 @Nicola Reimann: Yes exactly - I'd definitely go for programme focused approaches! It's what we argue in the article. Individual courses without any alignment in their assessment practices are likely to not 'promote agency' in a longer run... 00:25:55.000 --> 00:25:55.900 @James Wood thanks for that article. Lots of reading to be done afterwards πŸ™‚ 00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:49.900 @Zhen: About self-efficacy: There was no baseline test as we used a context-specific scales for self-efficacy and approaches to learning. 00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:25.900 @Hazel Lobo @Carolin R. You are very welcome πŸ™‚ feel free to ask if you have any further questions. 00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:09.900 @Claudia: A very good question! The results would surely be different. It would be very interesting to conduct such a study. I think we need to offer authentic learning situations - in which we need to enable failing! When I did my teacher practicum, I failed many times; these were 'high-stakes situations' in terms that there were real students in the classroom who were affected my my fails. I think if we want to promote evaluative judgment (that nurses etc need to be able to do!) we need to offer authentic 'summative assessment' situations, and room to fail and learn... 00:29:31.000 --> 00:29:31.900 @Juuso Nieminen #3 I 00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:56.900 I agree. Thanks 00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:27.900 @mike: Digital feedback that concerned how many points the students had gotten based on the math tasks, and how it related to their self-assessment. So it was an algorithm doing the work - but rather simply. The point was not whether it was "correct" or not, but the reflection that followed. The students had to reply not just whether it was correct but WHY 00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:52.900 @Juuso Nieminen #3 , there's a lot to be said for failure-learning. It's how we all learnt to walk! 00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:01.900 Juuso I agree 00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:28.900 @Sidney Martin #2: I've conducted similar assessment as a uni teacher but with much smaller classes... With my special education master's students I had to have 'an intervention' because they all graded themselves so low! 00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:45.900 @Rachel, so true, so sad 00:31:53.000 --> 00:31:53.900 'Am I allowed to'.... oh yes! 00:32:01.000 --> 00:32:01.900 @Juuso Nieminen #3 we are doing our students a disservice if we do not provide enough challenge that may mean students fail, they learn much more about their own resilience and motivations by having to move forward after a disappointment. 00:32:03.000 --> 00:32:03.900 Juuso, Wow so opposite to what I have found! 00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:13.900 There needs to be some 'do first, apologies later'. so people can experiment. 00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:25.900 @Mathew, yep! 00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:29.900 giving choice is so important in fostering agency 00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:40.900 self-responsibility 00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:24.900 yes, it is what we are 'training' them to do in the workplace, after al; 00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:38.900 @Franziska Trede: Choice is important as long as there is support and scaffolding! Especially in assessment cultures with a general tendency to reduce student agency. 00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:05.900 totally agree Juuso. there needs to be an enabling culture 00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:17.900 Do what is good rather than 'getting permission' 00:34:19.000 --> 00:34:19.900 speaks a lot to teacher identity 00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:30.900 Juuso absolutely agree- choice can be very disempowering if not supported 00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:45.900 @dcarless .. you radical, you 00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:05.900 @Fiona Ballard: Well, my students in Finland have always been very unfamiliar with formal self-assessment in general... For example, those education (!) master's students had never practiced self-assessment in university :--/ 00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:42.900 thanks, rachel! 00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:44.900 Fascinating @Rachel Forsyth - thank you 00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:16.900 Thank you @Rachel Forsyth!!!! 00:36:17.000 --> 00:36:17.900 @dcarless yes - forgiveness is easier to get 00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:30.900 Note: The slides will be posted to the TA site after the session. 00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:52.900 Assessment and feedback literacy is very important - stressing the word literacy. Can hopefully help students understand the reason and value of more agency in assessment, even if they are a bit more hesitant at first. And will help them make the most of feedback and feedforward and maybe do the same in peer-reviews. 00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:17.900 great presentations; thank you. assessment for agency needs to be seen in context and relationship with so many influencing factors 00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:22.900 I only have a small amount of self and peer assessment in a second year Biomedical Science unit. Most students give themselves 100% but a few give a very honest evaluation of themselves. It seems unfair they are disadvantaged by being honest when the majority of the cohort overestimate their contribution and knowledge. 00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:22.900 Maria Northcote (director of Higher degree research at Avondale College of HE, NSW) introduced me to Ladder of Student participation https://www.researchgate.net/publication/279448454_A_model_of_active_student_participation_in_curriculum_design_exploring_desirability_and_possibility which includes some great ideas for students making their own assessment tasks. 00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:27.900 @Juuso Nieminen #3 Thank, Juuso. That is very interesting. Could you please place a link to your paper? 00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:27.900 @Rac 00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:36.900 Thanks to @Juuso Nieminen #3 and @Rachel Forsyth - two very interesting presentations πŸ‘ 00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:50.900 Yes, @Carolin R. 00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:54.900 thanks, Yvonne 00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:54.900 @Carolin R. well expressed 00:38:01.000 --> 00:38:01.900 @Carolin R.: Indeed! That's why I find it so interesting that we often 'develop students' assessment/feedback literacy' in contexts/cultures where assessment+grading policies do not support this 00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:04.900 I have international students (pre university foundation year) who believe "feedback" means - my teacher will tell me exactly what to write. I'll write that and then my teacher will give me full marks - lots of work to do on assessment literacy here! 00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:09.900 Unfair to students to pretend that students have agency regarding assessment marking as only at doctorate level is this true as they can defend their thesis whereas at other levels students cannot argue with marks provided by teacher 00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:35.900 @Zhen Here you go πŸ™‚ https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/NBN3V8WVYRB5QVEE2A7R/full?target=10.1080/02602938.2020.1720595 00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:39.900 Note: we will post the chat log to the TA site too. Several links to articles will be available. 00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:52.900 @Fiona Ballard is there anyway that this can be mediated? 00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:54.900 Great - thanks! 00:38:56.000 --> 00:38:56.900 @mike some do perhaps? 00:38:57.000 --> 00:38:57.900 @Kristina Galloway very true 00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:03.900 Great! Thanks @Mathew Hillier 00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:05.900 @mike so true students can survive poor teaching perhaps but they cannot survive poor assessment 00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:22.900 @mike: I was so disappointed when I couldn't self-grade my PhD dissertation on self-grading... πŸ˜‰ 00:39:28.000 --> 00:39:28.900 @Kristina Galloway Thank you - yes that is my experience too... And yes, it is all about the scaffolding and gently leading... 00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:52.900 @mike... wouldn't it be good if assessment was a dialogue. and we had time to do it? 00:39:59.000 --> 00:39:59.900 @mike I think if there is feedback and feedforward ahead of summative assessments and marks, students do get more agency re: their marks 00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:06.900 There is the also the problem that many assessments are designed to narrow the number of students admitted to something. The purpose is gate-keeping, not assessment for learning 00:40:41.000 --> 00:40:41.900 @Kristina Galloway yes transparency in the role of assessment matters 00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:00.900 @Fiona Meddings with the peer assessment it is an average of the other group members marks, but with self assessment they can give themselves full marks if they choose. Obviously the majority of the marks for this assessment come from the lecturers who mark and moderate marking between campuses. 00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:12.900 @Carolin R. I spent a lot of time on feedback and feedforward, but really not sure the impact on students. 00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:15.900 @Carolin R. students can't appeal that their mark was unfair ... they can only appeal that rules weren't followed 00:41:19.000 --> 00:41:19.900 I would wonder if students self assess based on their perceived effort rather than actual knowledge and understanding...so the ones who felt they had spent more time would just award themselves a high mark even if they had not actually got an in depth understanding 00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:47.900 @annie that sounds like a very reasonable explanation 00:41:57.000 --> 00:41:57.900 @Laurine Hurley: Systemic change IS possible is change is promoted! In our math context the course utilised a large number of student tutors who helped us offer feedback (and developed their own feedback literacy at the same time!). It demanded a lot of work from colleagues - 10 years of pushing changes to involve students as tutors 00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:19.900 @annie, I think there is certainly an element of that when students query grades.. "but I worked really hard" 00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:31.900 @Juuso Nieminen #3 Thanks for the paper 00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:36.900 maths tends to have right/wrong answers unlike many other subjects 00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:42.900 @Laurine Hurley πŸ‘ πŸ˜… 00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:54.900 yes, there is some conflation of effort with achievement. I am concerned this is quite deeply embedded - 'work hard and you will do well' but the hard work can be misdirected! 00:42:55.000 --> 00:42:55.900 @annie there has been some interesting work on this I think @dcarless could post some of his papers 00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:04.900 maths is objective not subjective 00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:07.900 @annie - yes that would be interesting. Although we wish to increase agency we still need accuracy in measurement of competency. 00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:15.900 2Laurine I have lost count of the times a student has said that! 00:43:17.000 --> 00:43:17.900 I have a similar context as yours @Kristina Galloway .. changing the assessment culture of those Ss is really challenging! 00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:30.900 good point @Alice Shepherd (Univ of Leeds) - part of staff assessment literacy could be focused on managing these expectations? 00:43:57.000 --> 00:43:57.900 @annie good point with self-assessing effort rather than criteria... there's also cognitive bias with the Dunning Kruger effect that we need to appreciate 00:43:59.000 --> 00:43:59.900 @mike.. not in the post-Trump alternative facts world😞 00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:03.900 Thank you so much for today's session and for the really interactive chat. I'm sorry. I have to leave now for a feedback call with a student πŸ™‚ I will pick up on the final part of the recording - and for any more links. I have some really great reading for the weekend. Thanks again, stay safe everyone. 00:44:09.000 --> 00:44:09.900 https://www.southampton.ac.uk/rap/index.page 00:44:11.000 --> 00:44:11.900 Student feedback literacy https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02602938.2018.1463354 00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:20.900 I think formative feedback/stage can assist here @Rachel Forsyth as can help students who are off track before it's too late 00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:23.900 Muddy Puddles! lol 00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:28.900 thanks for the links 00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:40.900 The first paper raised the issue of those students who demonstrated an extreme lack of agency. Where does this come from and how can we address it? I think we already know, but what can we do about this and are there relevant studies? 00:45:44.000 --> 00:45:44.900 i tried to tell students to work smart rather than hard i.e read instructions, then focus your effort. 00:45:59.000 --> 00:45:59.900 ha! READ? 00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:01.900 yes - scaffolded, clear 00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:01.900 @Suzanne Fergus yes that's true too - people always rate themselves as above average anyway 00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:14.900 @Mathew Hillier would it be possible to compile all the excellent links in the chat for sharing later? Afraid I might have missed some... 00:46:31.000 --> 00:46:31.900 yes - chat will be posted to the TA site. 00:46:43.000 --> 00:46:43.900 @Mathew Hillier Perfect, thanks 00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:19.900 @annie agreed, encouraging reading and engagement with activities is very much a part of this whole process. 00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:00.900 We also have an issue about the kind of assessment that is cheap to implement - how many of us are hearing that eAssessment is here to stay? 00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:03.900 @Mathew Hillier Agree with this approach. Unless there is a grade for process there can be a misalignment between effort and outcome for the student 00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:23.900 every step one of us takes makes it a little easier for others to be brave... 00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:44.900 After the financial crash 2008 Manchester Economics students tried to express agency by arguing that what they were being taught was failed economics and so wanted a different approach ... but the teacher who listed to them wasn't supported by the university 00:48:56.000 --> 00:48:56.900 Thank you for organising this session - I look forward to read more 00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:00.900 We get students to peer mark work too using marking schemes - that way they do not have bias of effort, yet they see what is required to do well and they improve on their future work. 00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:05.900 Yeah for integration 00:49:17.000 --> 00:49:17.900 Thank you everyone for a very helpful, informative session. Much appreciated. Stay safe everyone. 00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:30.900 I'm very worried about the "washback" form eAssessment into teaching 00:49:37.000 --> 00:49:37.900 How prevalent are hesitations from course tutors, who often have high teaching workloads (especially in first year courses) to move away from traditional assessments (pencil/paper tests) and lack of feedback and integrate more feedback opportunities into the semester work? 00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:40.900 @Lisa yes that is an eye opener for many and can improve their work 00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:45.900 double duty: classic paper https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/713695728 00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:15.900 @Nicola Reimann in South Korea, a lack of agency is down to previous experiences, for example. Students usually received summative feedback, they have few chances for formative assessment. Very little ability to challenge feedback or ask questions about it. Rather than taking a 'deficit' view (Lea and Street), I'd say it can often be down to a lack of opportunity to take part in activities to scaffold agency. That way we can 'blame' the lack of opportunity designed in the curriculum as opposed to the students themselves. 00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:17.900 πŸ‘ @dcarless - thank you! it really is a classic 00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:23.900 students like formative automated assessment 00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:30.900 @Laurine yes that is definitely helpful in out first year units 00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:39.900 yes, the question of the cost of providing formative assessment tasks is very thorny, particularly in Australia with the huge impact of the loss of funds from the drop in international students and the Federal Government's unwillingness to fund higher education 00:50:52.000 --> 00:50:52.900 That's really good to hear @Juuso Nieminen #3 00:50:56.000 --> 00:50:56.900 @dcarless thanks for sharing πŸ‘ 00:51:35.000 --> 00:51:35.900 Thank you for a great session - be safe and stay healthy everybody. Goodbye from South Africa. 00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:46.900 Formative is often considered a "waste as it doesn't count".. by higher-up staff as well as students 00:51:49.000 --> 00:51:49.900 yes we shouldn't duck the resourcing challenge - there are some very large c lasses where formative assessment and supporting self and peer assessment are challenging 00:51:53.000 --> 00:51:53.900 @Juuso Nieminen #3 what resources did you use to help students learn HOW to self-assess? Sorry if this has already been addressed and I missed it. 00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:04.900 thanks. 00:52:11.000 --> 00:52:11.900 @Nicola Reimann I meant to add that many students from around the world learn in similar conditions in their undergrads, and even UK studies report students often see feedback as 'justification' for the grade (Ali Ahmed and Rose, 2018) for example. 00:52:25.000 --> 00:52:25.900 SPARKPLUS software good for self and peer review 00:52:57.000 --> 00:52:57.900 Thanks both, really interesting and though provoking session. 00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:08.900 One of our small changes is to ask staff to add a statement on how students should use their feedback for the task in each assignment brief 00:53:29.000 --> 00:53:29.900 I am sure this doesn't always happen! but it's a signal to think about it. 00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:40.900 @Laurine Hurley what about including a small part of the grade to support the process? This will probably count when it comes to longer term outcomes! 00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:42.900 can make mark dependent on how closely self assessment matches teacher assessment 00:53:58.000 --> 00:53:58.900 I have this problem with a unit with maximum 50 students. Some do the right thing but the dishonest ones benefit from self assessment. A problem for me. 00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:05.900 thank you - wonderful!! 00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:08.900 Thanks to the presenters. Really interesting. 00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:15.900 πŸ‘ 00:54:19.000 --> 00:54:19.900 yes, @JJames, I did this but it can be hard to get past the censors! 00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:20.900 Thank you to the presenters: so very interesting 00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:20.900 Exactly, it's the cultural issues we need to address, otherwise students (and colleagues!) will not buy into these approaches 00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:22.900 Thank you all. 00:54:23.000 --> 00:54:23.900 Thank you to the speakers and for the interesting chat πŸ™‚ 00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:25.900 Thanks! 00:54:28.000 --> 00:54:28.900 Great session! Thank you! 00:54:29.000 --> 00:54:29.900 Thanks so much! Fascinating presentations and chats πŸ™‚ 00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:30.900 @Michelle Harvey: There were quite a few! there was a rubric, exemplars, support and scaffolding for self-assessment both on- an offline... also peer feedback, both digital and informal etc 00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:31.900 ❀ 00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:32.900 Thank you very much 00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:32.900 Thank you, some really fascinating talks 00:54:33.000 --> 00:54:33.900 Thank you! 00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:34.900 Thank you for the presentations and discussion - very interesting. 00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:34.900 Thank you 00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:35.900 yes thank you everyone for all the comments and questions - happy to hear more from you if I didn't answer! @rmforsyth on twitter 00:54:37.000 --> 00:54:37.900 πŸ‘ 00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:38.900 @Laurine Hurley I hear you! 00:54:39.000 --> 00:54:39.900 Thanks so much to Juuso and Rachel 00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:42.900 Thank you πŸ™‚ 00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:49.900 Thanks! πŸ‘ 00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:50.900 Great session, thank you. 00:54:51.000 --> 00:54:51.900 Thank you all! 00:54:59.000 --> 00:54:59.900 πŸ‘ 00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:00.900 Thanks everyone 00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:04.900 Thank you, learnt a lot . 00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:04.900 @Juuso Nieminen #3 thank you. 00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:10.900 Thanks Juuso and Rachel. 00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:10.900 Thank you so much for the active discussion!!! It's hard to keep up πŸ™‚ If there are any further questions/ideas, hit me with a message juuso.nieminen@uef.fi, @JuusoNieminen 00:55:11.000 --> 00:55:11.900 Thank you!! 00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:12.900 Thanks. Looking forward to the next session. 00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:12.900 Thanks everyone - really enjoyed the session. 00:55:14.000 --> 00:55:14.900 Thank you all, as always very informative and interesting. πŸ™‚