Nicolas and Alexander [FU Berlin] Ghizzi Uni of Bristol 5:05 PM good morning Mathew Hillier 5:05 PM lol :_) 5:05 PM :-) 5:05 PM Ghizzi Uni of Bristol 5:05 PM hehe yes Mathew Hillier 5:05 PM just fine :-) Ghizzi Uni of Bristol 5:08 PM http://www.cedis.fu-berlin.de/en/ yes same with our science students 5:10 PM Nicolas and Alexander [FU Berlin] 5:11 PM www.neuestatistik.de www.statistiklabor.de 5:11 PM Ghizzi Uni of Bristol 5:12 PM yes Mathew Hillier 5:13 PM then you end up with paper exam! Ghizzi Uni of Bristol 5:15 PM excellent Mathew Hillier 5:16 PM right - you cant just google the answer Tobias Halbherr 5:16 PM how do you prevent cheating by students sharing their solutions? or working together to solve a problem? 5:16 PM Ghizzi Uni of Bristol 5:17 PM You have the Bb logo on slide, does the program work within Bb? thank you 5:18 PM Rebecca H (IBO) 5:18 PM So they need to include their workings (the steps)? Tobias Halbherr 5:20 PM thank you Rebecca H (IBO) 5:21 PM so am I That is not strange, young people are not necessarily worried about issues of privacy. You see that now, although they are starting to see the problems. 5:22 PM Tobias Halbherr 5:22 PM similar experience here: we have not had a single appeal against exams taking place online - in over 200 exams and 20'000 grades given Rebecca H (IBO) 5:24 PM You have the same experience even with questionnaires or other tests, use a laptop and people think it is fun... Tim Hunt 5:24 PM Are you using wireless, or wired network? Nicolas and Alexander [FU Berlin] 5:24 PM wired Rebecca H (IBO) 5:25 PM Are there no problems with different keyboards then? We have students in many countries, with different keys. Mathew Hillier 5:26 PM different spec machines. some run faster etc. Rebecca H (IBO) 5:26 PM Does the university offer computers at discounts, computers that are good enough to do the exams Nicolas and Alexander [FU Berlin] 5:26 PM yes, we had an agreement with apple and dell, but that ran out in 2011. Andrew Baron UWS 5:26 PM any concerns about students seeing other student's work on screen? Mathew Hillier 5:27 PM do they use their own laptop freely or do they need to install lockdown browser etc? Nicolas and Alexander [FU Berlin] 5:27 PM as it was designed as an open book scenario there was no need for lockdown. Rebecca H (IBO) 5:29 PM have you used the eExam to make it more accessible for students with disabilities (dyslexia, bad eye sight, etc.)? Nicolas and Alexander [FU Berlin] 5:29 PM they didnt even try to cheat by watching another participant's screen. they were only concentrated on their own screens. Ghizzi Uni of Bristol 5:29 PM Need the ritual Iris Nube (IBO) 5:29 PM Were the questions randomized? That would make cheating much harder Mathew Hillier 5:30 PM is there a link for the exam software you used? Tobias Halbherr 5:30 PM it is interesting to hear of all these eExams without lockdown Rebecca H (IBO) 5:31 PM without lockdown puts quite a high standard on the question setting. Jeffery 5:31 PM yes, question is how to prevent brain drain Tobias Halbherr 5:31 PM when we tried exams without lockdown (open book or not), suspicious similarities were found in student results (identical mistakes) Iris Nube (IBO) 5:31 PM how do you deal with math symbols in the statistics exam? Ghizzi Uni of Bristol 5:31 PM sounds very versatile Rebecca H (IBO) 5:34 PM Are the exams corrected/marked automatically or by humans? Mathew Hillier 5:34 PM the scheduling slots x seats will limit it writing good constructed questions in a way that makes cheating unviable is a better solution than trying to lock down the system to prevent students googling the answers to recall questions. 5:36 PM Rebecca H (IBO) 5:37 PM @Matt, that is true, but it also will make the exam more difficult for some. Better in my opinion, because it is about thinking, not recall. You'd test recall by application. 5:37 PM Tobias Halbherr 5:37 PM @Mathew: the exam in question had very elaborate exam tasks: students had to code software that solves certain problems. Tobias Halbherr 5:37 PM communication between students remains an issue, even in open book exams ...i agree :) 5:38 PM Mathew Hillier 5:39 PM indeed it is a complex 'messy' problem to solve classic 'wicked' problem (systems thinking) :-D 5:40 PM Mathew Hillier 5:41 PM or you quarantined the groups in separate rooms... another problem! yes! ;-) 5:41 PM Tobias Halbherr 5:41 PM we can ;) Mathew Hillier 5:41 PM they did it in singapore too. Mathew Hillier 5:42 PM but the students didnt like it Tobias Halbherr 5:43 PM "technology is not reliable enough".... we have that prejudice here, too Mathew Hillier 5:44 PM UBC have a very solid wifi. they use 1000 students at once doing online exams. 5:44 PM Ghizzi Uni of Bristol 5:44 PM I like that approach Mathew Hillier 5:45 PM but they still have a 'just in case' computer lab set aside. Ghizzi Uni of Bristol 5:45 PM Naturally should always have a contingency plan Mathew Hillier 5:45 PM (sorry UBC - in Canada) not us! 5:45 PM (i wish!) 5:45 PM Rebecca H (IBO) 5:46 PM How do I turn the webcam off.....? Mathew Hillier 5:46 PM press the 'video' button again Rebecca H (IBO) 5:46 PM thanks :) Ghizzi Uni of Bristol 5:48 PM impressed you were able to push through all that Rebecca H (IBO) 5:49 PM so what is the purpose of the student declaration then. If they have no choice, how can they declare that they are ok with doing it onscreen? Mathew Hillier 5:50 PM the 'fairness' definition varies a lot from place to place. so what happens to people who cant type? 5:50 PM Ghizzi Uni of Bristol 5:50 PM that's me Mathew Hillier 5:50 PM e.g broken arm Rebecca H (IBO) 5:50 PM is it only about not being able to type? Mathew Hillier 5:51 PM ok Ghizzi Uni of Bristol 5:51 PM nope can't read b & w text either Rebecca H (IBO) 5:52 PM can I get the study of the money saved? Mathew Hillier 5:52 PM interested in the time and motion stuff too Rebecca H (IBO) 5:52 PM yes Mathew Hillier 5:52 PM (i cannot) Ghizzi Uni of Bristol 5:52 PM yes absolutely no i cant either ... google translate? 5:53 PM Mathew Hillier 5:53 PM 1400euro per 100 is not to be sneezed at! Tobias Halbherr 5:54 PM can you give us citation of study? Mathew Hillier 5:54 PM the messy handwriting is a common comment from teachers here too Tobias Halbherr 5:54 PM ...we have very similar experience with essay questions Ghizzi Uni of Bristol 5:54 PM yes we've had papers so illegible no one could mark them Mathew Hillier 5:55 PM BAT11 = the level of your teacher's appointment? Tobias Halbherr 5:55 PM ...so even with CR questions you don't really save any money Mathew Hillier 5:55 PM ok so like tutor level Tobias Halbherr 5:56 PM ...but investment in providing eExam service is still higher than savings Iris Nube (IBO) 5:56 PM I assume this does not include the building cost of the centre? So the start up costs are huge? Mathew Hillier 5:56 PM but you are not sacking tutors anytime soon... hopefully they can be redeployed to provide one-on-one help to students instead surly not doing e-exams for the $. 5:56 PM Ghizzi Uni of Bristol 5:56 PM yes hopefully Mathew Hillier 5:57 PM you are doing this to enhance the pedagogical landscape in the exam. (sorry for my crappy typing skill) 5:57 PM Rebecca H (IBO) 5:57 PM savings on grading is interesting enough for now. - Michael Tuckley left the Main Room. ( 5:57 PM ) - Mathew Hillier 5:58 PM we dont have special exam rooms. not enough space. 5:58 PM Ghizzi Uni of Bristol 5:58 PM yes the same is true for massive paper examinations re rooms environment Mathew Hillier 5:58 PM a lot run in common tute rooms. and even tired lecture rooms. Ghizzi Uni of Bristol 5:58 PM I did one in local football stadium! Rebecca H (IBO) 5:58 PM Young people increasingly write less and less, so their handwriting is getting worse as well. it is a complicated motor skill that requires a lot of regular practice. Mathew Hillier 5:59 PM yes some uni in aust rent the stadium or exhibition hall too. Tobias Halbherr 5:59 PM handwriting is a poorly developed skill nowadays - exactly Nicolas and Alexander [FU Berlin] 5:59 PM absolutely Trevor Meek Uni of Bradford, UK. 5:59 PM Totally agree about handwriting! Ghizzi Uni of Bristol 6:00 PM yes seems to affect the quality of particular fine motor control skills other than writing too. Rebecca H (IBO) 6:01 PM then again, surgeons are starting to refine motor skills for laproscopic surgery... Contrary developments? Mathew Hillier 6:02 PM our math department still runs paper and white boards. they prefer 'pen' input mode! Ghizzi Uni of Bristol 6:02 PM yes was more a general observation of my students ability to use a Gilson's pipette...;) Mathew Hillier 6:03 PM it vary between discipline areas. Trevor Meek Uni of Bradford, UK. 6:03 PM I have observed over the years that student medics and post-grad tend to take more notes (many on-paper still) Rebecca H (IBO) 6:04 PM In some courses, laptops are frowned upon, because the teacher is never sure they are actually taking notes. Student facebook, tweet, etc... I speak from personal experience :) 6:04 PM Tobias Halbherr 6:04 PM ...so you have security at the network level instead of lockdown browser? Rebecca H (IBO) 6:05 PM That means a substantial outlay/investment Mathew Hillier 6:07 PM http://www.e-examinations.fu-berlin.de Nicolas and Alexander [FU Berlin] 6:07 PM www.lplus.de Ghizzi Uni of Bristol 6:07 PM hehe thank you Mathew Hillier 6:07 PM http://eli.elc.edu.sa/2009/content/Crisp%5Bresearch%5D.pdf http://www.uni-hamburg.de/eLearning/eCommunity/Hamburger_eLearning_Magazin/eLearningMagazin_07.pdf 6:07 PM Tobias Halbherr 6:07 PM thank you for a very interesting talk :) Mathew Hillier 6:07 PM http://www.statistiklabor.de/de/news/Presseartikel/Focus-12-05/index.html Tim Hunt 6:08 PM Thank you for an interesting talk Mathew Hillier 6:08 PM please fill the feedback survey too! the link on the slide is clickable this time. 6:08 PM Ghizzi Uni of Bristol 6:08 PM Thank you lots of information and very interesting talk again :) Tobias Halbherr 6:09 PM got to run. thank you and bye 6:09 PM Mathew Hillier 6:09 PM thanks tobias :-0 Ghizzi Uni of Bristol 6:09 PM bye bye Nicolas and Alexander [FU Berlin] 6:09 PM http://mms.uni-hamburg.de/2012/01/02/7-hamburger-elearning-magazin-erschienen/ Hele 6:09 PM Thank you, it was very interesting Rebecca H (IBO) 6:09 PM Thanks, really interesting! Ghizzi Uni of Bristol 6:10 PM Thanks all got to go bye bye :) Iris Nube (IBO) 6:10 PM Thank you very much for the presentation! Andrew Baron UWS 6:10 PM thank you! Sue Atkinson University of Sydney 6:10 PM Thank you - great presentation! Nicolas and Alexander [FU Berlin] 6:10 PM nicolas.apostolopoulos@cedis.fu-berlin.de alexander.schulz@cedis.fu-berlin.de 6:10 PM Rebecca H (IBO) 6:11 PM bye and thanks Ghizzi Uni of Bristol 6:11 PM cheers Sue Atkinson University of Sydney 6:11 PM Bye! Trevor Meek Uni of Bradford, UK. 6:11 PM Thanks all. Nicolas and Alexander [FU Berlin] 6:12 PM http://www.online-educa.com/the-conference Martin schranz 1 6:13 PM Thanks